Networking for Introverts: How to Work Any Room - Author and "People Whisperer" Ely Delaney (Pt. 1) (The Transcript)
TL;DR
E-mail marketing strategist and author Ely Delaney, known as “The People Whisperer", joins host Dani Raschel Chou for Part 1 of a two-part conversation about how connection actually works. An introvert who once worked a 600-person event without stepping into the room, Ely breaks down how to network without faking extroversion, why mastering one skill beats being okay at ten, and how the same principles that make a good email make a good relationship. Along the way: archery as meditation, and why it’s never too late to start something new.
Key Takeaways
Network by leading with “who can I help?”, and not “who can help me?” The mindset shift takes the pressure off and changes every conversation.
Show up early and talk to the host. They’ll point you to the people you should meet, so you’re not walking into a full room cold.
Never take a cold shoulder personally. Someone not engaging usually says more about their day than about you — and there are millions of other people to meet.
You can be an introvert and be great with people. Know your “ticks,” work with them (sit near the door, step out to recharge), and don’t let them defeat you.
Go deep, not wide. Ely and Dani’s take on Jim Rohn’s five-year rule: get genuinely great at one thing instead of okay at everything.
Invest in learning. The $50 book you skip costs you more than the $100 dinner you don’t think twice about.
Business runs on know, like, and trust — plus loyalty. You can’t build loyalty with someone who only ever asks you for something.
It’s not too late to start. Ely took up archery as an adult and became the #1 longbow archer in the Northwest, proof that new things reward focus at any age.
Questions Answered
How can introverts get better at networking?
What’s the biggest networking mistake people make?
Why does Ely Delaney say to focus on just one skill?
What is email nurture marketing?
What does a ghostwriter actually do?
How is archery a form of meditation?
The Full Conversation
Dani Raschel: Welcome back to With Hat and Cattle, where we bring you stories from people who are walking the walk and leaving you better off for listening. Today, we have in the studio guest Ely Delaney, who is known as The People Whisperer. He also has built an email marketing system that helps you follow up with people that you're already connected with, and he recently authored, or I wanted to say launched, I think that's just a social media, marketing thing, but he recently released the book, The Follow-Up Code. And as a corporate girly, I'm obsessed with the size, I'm obsessed with the color, and of course, it has great content. So Ely, welcome to the studio.
Ely : Well, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Dani Raschel: We were just talking about how... I think I thank every guest for making the over-hour drive to come out and sit here with us. As an executive assistant, I can appreciate the value of time. So again- Yeah.
Ely : Well, it's, you know, so many of us are behind our desks all the time. Even for me, I run my own podcast, I do it behind my desk 'cause I don't really wanna go anywhere and have, you know, all the extra work that goes involved with it.
So it's really is nice to be able to do that once in a while. So it's kind of it's like, "Hey, it's a Friday afternoon. Let's go s- go hang out for a bit."
Dani Raschel: Yes. When we first met, we met through a networking group. Success Champions Networking.
Ely : Yep.
Dani Raschel: And we, I think within that next week or two, had a, a what we call virtual coffee.
Ely : Yep.
Dani Raschel: So you spoke to when you first moved to the Dallas-Fort Worth area, you were looking for a group to, to... You were looking to find your community.
Ely : Yes.
Dani Raschel: Yes. And it's interesting that this word community has come up now, I think, it's the third episode we are filming today, and it seems to be a theme.
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: Can you explain to us why it was important when you first moved here to find this community?
Ely : Yeah. So when I moved here, I knew nobody. I, I literally knew two people who are very distant business acquaintances. So yes, I could reach out to them, we could have coffee or lunch or whatever, but not people I would call friends, not people that I know very well.
Um, and so for me, I have to have human interaction. I have to find people that I can be with. Um, we live in this virtual world. Even most of my business is not here locally, and it, you know, and it hasn't been even before I moved here. But Having real people to communicate with is, is very, very important for me, which is really funny since I'm an introvert.
But that was a big one. And finding a business community, 'cause I was, you know, I was kinda starting the business over when I moved, so it was like, "Okay, I need to figure out who to network with and who to talk to, find people who might actually want my stuff." And so that's where it came from. And the introduction actually came to Donnie, who is the, the founder of Success Champions, through a client of mine who actually is in Atlanta.
She was like, "Well, you're in DFW. Do you know Donnie Boiven?" I was like, "I don't, don't think I know any Donnies." And so she introduced us. Uh, we ended up having a chat, and I wasn't so sure at first. I was like, "Yeah, they... I've been to a lot of these things, not so sure." And it turned out to be pretty good. And th- almost three and a half years later, I'm still here, and now I'm even running a chapter.
Dani Raschel: You are. You are the president of the chapter that I'm a part of. Mm-hmm. So quick plug for Metropolitan Business Influencers. Your background, is it in communications or in marketing?
Ely : My ba- my background is somewhat in, in marketing. My first company was a web and graphic design agency. I started it back in 1995, um, back before we had all, like, WordPress and all the fancy stuff we have now. It's like people have no clue how easy they have it compared to back then.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : Um, and I grew that from myself, by myse- you know, just by myself working out of my dining room to an office. I had five employees. We were cr- closing three to five contracts a week, and I mean, we were doing really, really good.
Then I realized, didn't like going to an office, and I wasn't a real fan of my employees either, so I burnt the whole thing down, started over. Um, but I learned, out of necessity, I learned marketing, 'cause it's like, "Okay, I can build pretty websites, but I gotta get people to actually pay me for them."
You know? And so I picked up... I mean, I spent... If anybody remembers Borders Books. Um- Yes ... you know, Barnes & Noble obviously still made it through it. Borders didn't. And I mean, I was spending probably $50 to $100 a week buying books to learn marketing and learn be- get better at graphic design, get better at, um, web design stuff.
I mean, literally anything that would help me in my business, I was buying and consuming as fast as possible. And so that's what actually helped me grow that business and eventually led into what I'm doing now as well.
Dani Raschel: I have been obsessed about Jim Rohn over the past month.
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: Listening to anything I can get my ears on on YouTube. And-he spoke to so many of us don't bat an eye at spending $100 on dinner.
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: And yet when it comes to buying the $50 to $100 book-
Ely : Right ...
Dani Raschel: or course, you know, whatever it is, it's like, "Ugh," And that really puts so much into perspective to me, for me, because I love going to Dakota's Steakhouse.
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: And yeah, I love- Yeah ... love Dakota's Steakhouse. Won't bat, like he said, won't bat an eye. But that really got me thinking, "Oh my gosh, like, that $150 could be used on a course that's gonna advance my career, my personal life." And so yeah, it really put things in perspective.
Ely : It's, it's good that you got that 'cause so many people don't. And I've, I've always been, you know, it's like, okay, the best thing you can do to grow your career, whatever that looks like, is to always be learning. How can you learn a new skill? How can you figure out how to do something just 10% better?
Because that puts you at the top, top percentage. And literally, I mean, I don't even know what the stat is. I, I've heard it 100 times, but I don't remember the specifics of how many people have not actually read a book since high school like, the rest of their lives, they're not even picking up a book. And I'm like, it just, it blows my mind because, I have my space here 'cause it, 'cause I moved into a much smaller place than I had before, and my space here is not near a big, near big enough.
I need a lot more bookshelves- Yeah ... and a lot more space to put the bookshelves. I have, like, 10 boxes of books that I haven't pulled out of the boxes yet that I refuse to get rid of. And when I moved, I got rid of, like, 30 bags worth of books. Um, these are ones that I had used over my career- Yeah ... of learning, and eventually was like, "Okay, you know, I need to downsize everything 'cause I don't, really don't wanna haul all this stuff across the country."
And at that point I was like, "Let's, let's put 'em out in the world and let, let other people get use of 'em." But I've been, since I moved here, I've been collecting even more, and I'm- Yes ... reading consistently. And, you know, we have n- we are in a world of so much information. The ability to learn anything is at our fingertips.
It, it's scary how many people don't take advantage of that.
Dani Raschel: Yeah. It's, that important advice that you'll come across every now and then. Don't consume the content, like, create the content, and how can we do that? By learning. So you, you wrote the book, The Follow Up Code- and we're, and, and we're gonna get into it, but you actually have another book that you wrote before.
Ely : I have two previous books, and those are both, um, from ages ago, 2013, 2014, in that range. And those were marketing books as well.
First one was 50 Quick and Easy Ways to Market Your Business.
Dani Raschel: Okay.
Ely : Um, that was done with my partner at the time, and then the second one was the sequel I put literally, like, right after it, uh, which was 25 Quick and Easy Ways to Network Your Business, so it was networking tidbits.
Dani Raschel: Mm.
Ely : And those two books, we had a lot of fun with them. Um, it was a good miniseries to get going, and being a networker myself, I mean, when I first grew my, my design agency, that's literally how I grew, was networking with other people. So I took everything that I had learned for, like, the previous 15 years and put it out there.
Dani Raschel: For someone who's introverted-
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: networking can be, can be challenging.
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: So how did you do it?
Ely : So couple things, and I actually put this in the book, because of the fact I, I designed that book literally for introverts.
Dani Raschel: Sounds like I need to get it.
Ely : Yeah. Um, even wrote a course, or did a whole course on it too, which was... I don't even remember when I put that out, but it's still relevant today. Uh, there's so many things. First and foremost- Walk into a room knowing exactly what you're looking for. And it shouldn't be, "Who's gonna give me a credit card?" It should be, "Who can I help?"
Dani Raschel: Mm.
Ely : Change your mindset. Who in this room can I help? When you do that, it takes a lot of pressure off. Second thing is that if you are going to a room where you don't know anybody, show up early. Show up early, 'cause if you can go get there, and you can possibly get in the room and meet the host before anybody else is there, you can ask them, "Hey, who should I know? Who should I meet tonight?"
And they'll be the person that'll introduce you to that person, which is easier. Also, when more people start showing up, they're gonna kinda trickle in. So you've got the host and you, and that's easy. You add one more person. Okay, that's easy, 'cause there's just three people. You get st- get another one coming in, you got four people, but you're already comfortable with the first two, and it just, it kinda, it's a slow burn as opposed to walking into a room that's got 50 people.
Um, that is one of the biggest things that I always tell people is, like, show up early, talk to the host, ask them who they should meet or, um, or who you should meet, and get that conversation started that way. 'Cause the host introducing you to the other person and then coming in at a small, small group kinda situation makes it so much more digestible than walking into a room. I mean, sometimes I'm known to go to events where I never even actually end up walking in the room, 'cause I st- I'm not working outside. Yeah. I just talk to people. There was an event that I did years ago, uh, I don't even remember what year it was.
There was 600 people there, and I was there for five hours and never stepped foot in the room.
Dani Raschel: That's amazing.
Ely : Yeah. But I tal- I probably talked to 100-plus people that night.
Dani Raschel: Have you ever found yourself in a situation where someone hasn't wanted to talk to you?
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: What do you do?
Ely : Uh, it depends on what the, what the purpose is, what their situation is. Like, if they don't, if they truly don't wanna talk to you, then I move on. I'm not gonna worry about it. Um, there are so many people in this world that we can meet. Um, if somebody's gonna be a snob, I don't care. They can, they can be a snob on their own time. I got, I got 50 other people I can talk to.
Um, it, it depends on the situation. Maybe they're not feeling it. Maybe they've got something else going on in their head, whatever. Yeah. Um, s- figure out, you know, figure out maybe you could get a, get a, a chance to talk to them in a different situation. Uh, maybe, maybe you can have that virtual coffee instead of meeting them in person.
Dani Raschel: Mm.
But never take anything personal, because one of two things has happened. Either they're busy and overwhelmed by all the other people, and it's not that they don't wanna talk to you, it's that they're being distracted by other people. Or two, they might be a jerk, and you really don't wanna talk to them anyway.
And I've, and I've been there before. I've met those people that, you know, they, the, the joke of don't ever meet your heroes, sometimes you have that happen. It does happen. Yes. Don't stress about it. Again, how many millions of people are there you can talk to? Go find somebody else. Somebody's gonna be happy to talk to you.
Dani Raschel: It's so refreshing to hear. You just, you say that can, you know, sometimes validating, especially for someone who's a recovering people pleaser and you just want everyone to like you. Right. Yeah. It, you go to a networking event, and especially if it's the first person, you know, 'cause-
Dani Raschel: As an introvert- it's, you know, I hype myself up a little bit, you know?
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: I'm playing my music in the car, and like I'm ready and I'm gonna go, and then the first person you talk to just doesn't wanna engage for whatever reason. It's hard not to take it personal. So again- giving grace for that communication. I mean, you don't know what kind of day they had.
Ely : Right.
Dani Raschel: It's 100% correct.
Ely : And, and you may not realize it, a lot of times people don't realize that that person might be an introvert too, so-
Dani Raschel: What?
Ely : They, they might actually be terrified to talk to you. They're just showing it differently. And I've, I've had that happen before.
And, and sometimes like people that they're just not, they're not engaging. They look like they really do not want to be there, and it looks like it's n- because they don't wanna talk to you. And then a situation changes, and they just open up because maybe you catch them in the hallway instead, or they just were having a bad night, whatever.
And sometimes, especially introverts- 'cause introverts react differently in different ways. So I always joke about the fact I'm a ins- introvert with extrovert tendencies.
Dani Raschel: Uh-huh.
Ely : So I can fake extrovert really well.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : But I know like I know what's going on in my head, and I know where my hands are starting to shake and all the other things that are my traits, but I have worked for years on how to deal with those.
And that's one of the things, if you're an introvert, don't let that hold you back. Learn what it is, learn what your ticks are-
Dani Raschel: Uh-huh. Yes ...
Ely : because we all have them.
Dani Raschel: We do.
Ely : Learn what they're, what they are and learn how to deal with them. Um, you may or may not remember this, but like last year at the big conference- for Success Champions, Babs, um, if you h- if you had noticed at all, and you probably didn't 'cause most people don't, um, any time you see me, you're gonna see me towards the back close to a door because that is part of my anxiety is being close for an easy escape.
Dani Raschel: Yeah.
Ely : And that's, and that's something I learned early on. That was something that's part of my situation. Either that or I have to be with my back to the wall so I can see everybody around, and preferably I got both, right?
Dani Raschel: Yes. Yes.
Ely : You know, I want the door right here and I want everybody else right here. Um, when I learned that about myself, I'm like, "Okay, I don't like being up there-
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm
Ely : and that gives me anxiety, so I'll just sit back here." And I'm just, I'm perfectly fine now. And so it's, you just learn what those things are. Don't let, don't let the ticks or the quirks hold you back. Figure out how can you deal with them. If you need to take regular breaks to go outside and refresh or get away from everybody, that's fine.
If at times you need to take lunch away from everybody- Yeah ... e- I mean, lunch is the best time to communicate and, and have a lot of, you know, really get to connect with other people, but if your anxiety won't handle it, that's fine. Go to the hotel room, take a nap. Whatever you need to do to make yourself un- okay with it, just work with that.
But don't ever let it defeat you.
Dani Raschel: So for people who aren't aware, you also do, public speaking. You're-
Ely : Yes...
Dani Raschel: You do speaking engagements.
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: And I just feel like we've gotten, whatever your hourly, hourly rate is, we just got that in abundance. Because that, those, that's such great advice to give us. And I-
Ely : Thank you.
Dani Raschel: appreciate it. That's someone definitely who's been in the trenches and has put in the reps. Yeah. So Ely, your website lists Archer's Journey as a project alongside Meet Cool People-
Ely : Mm-hmm...
Dani Raschel: and your marketing work, but no one's really ever asked about it. And so I'm curious why.
Ely : Why people don't ask about it, I don't know. it, but it is, it's an interesting, fun thing. Uh, archery is, for me, it's my form of meditation. I got into it, um, oh, I don't even remember how many, probably closer to 12-ish years ago maybe.
Dani Raschel: Okay.
Ely : Um, I had never really been into it before. I think I, I tried it once, you know, in high school when they actually give you, like, one thing, one sport every week to have you try everything. So I got to shoot, like, three arrows and sucked at it. Um, but it was, it was several years ago, and I was like, "I w- I bet that archery be- is a really good form of meditation." Mm. And I, and I did learn, I just went and Googled at the time, and found out it was actually very well known, especially in Japanese culture.
And yeah. And so I got into it. I took classes. I found out that two things. Number one, uh, I loved it. I really enjoyed it. Second thing is the place I was doing the lessons should not be allowed to be teaching anybody anything 'cause they were very unsafe. But I, I went head over heels into it, got into, uh, just, not just shooting, but I also got into building strings, uh, which is a kind of an art form in itself.
Yeah. Um, the, I did, got certified as an instructor. All kinds of other stuff. I've made my own arrows, and I just have a blast with it. I did tournaments. I was actually number one longbow for five years up in the Northwest.
Dani Raschel: What?
Ely : Yes. Um, so they do tournaments within, like, five or six states, and so I took the number one position multiple years in that.
And for me, it is medita- meditation. It's a lot of fun. It is, it is actually really good, especially, like, if you have kids that are special needs, a lot of times they are really great with it because it helps them concentrate.
Dani Raschel: Mm.
Ely : And for me, I learned so much about it. I learned a lot more about- Getting into your own mindset and relaxing and letting go. And so for me, that is the number one thing with it. Plus, if you can go someplace, especially outdoors, and just go for a walk and fling some arrows, it's a lot of fun.
Dani Raschel: I feel like I'm hosting my own episode of Meet Cool People because that's like so cool, and I've never had someone tie archery to being a form of meditation.
Coming from a small town that has a big hunting base-
Ely : Yeah...
Dani Raschel: I mean, that's, I mean, it's part of hunting. So-
Ely : Right. A lot of people, a lot of people, that's where they do equate it to. And for me, I don't hunt. I have nothing wrong... I have no problem with hunting.
For me personally, I just know we have a lot of great steakhouses, I don't need to. Um, but the, the cool thing is if I ever needed to, I have the skills, I have the ability. Um, I know I would be perfectly fine with that, but I don't need to. I like to shoot targets, and I have fun with it. We go... I mean, I do everything from my, like my bow is a longbow, so if anybody who knows anything about archery, most of them think of compounds, which are the ones with the wheels and everything on it.
I literally shoot, it's a stick and a string. So think Robin Hood style, right? Of course. And, and the reason I do that is because I live in the world of tech, and I wanted something no fancy, no sights, no wheels, nothing extra. And when I, when I say it's a stick and a string, that's pretty much what it is.
Dani Raschel: Hey, well, I wanna stay here for a minute because again-this is so fascinating. When, so let me mirror back really quick. You start, you tried it in high school-
Ely : Mm-hmm...
Dani Raschel: and then you came back to it as an adult.
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : And it was, and there was like, I mean, I barely remember the high school experience. Like, I remember, we went through and we tried golf one day, and baseball one day, and basketball one day, and went through all these things, and I think I maybe shot maybe five arrows total in high school.
And that's the only time I remember ever doing it as a kid in any way, shape, or form.
Dani Raschel: What inspired you to try this as an adult? And the reason I'm asking is- sometimes we hear, "Oh my gosh, this person is over 40 years old and doing this amazing thing. It's- a marvel." And it's, we're, we're fed this narrative that, when we're younger, things, stick better, memory and all, all of that.
And it can feel sometimes scary to try something new, especially when some of the narrative that's pushed on you is it, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Ely : Right.
Dani Raschel: And but you have the spirit, and this, and maybe some of it's the entrepreneurial spirit, but you're not afraid to try new things and go after new things. So when it comes, coming back to the archery-
Ely : Mm-hmm...
Dani Raschel: what was that inspiration to try something new?
Ely : I, you know what's really funny is I honestly, I think it was probably the rise of all the, the TV and movie stuff. You had Hunger Games, you had Arrow on TV, you had Hawkeye on Marvel Avengers, all the different things like that, and I'm just watching the shows and I'm like, "I bet that that's, I bet that's a really good form of meditation, actually."
And that's literally the thought that crossed my head.
Dani Raschel: Uh-huh.
Ely : And so then again, like I said, I just went to the computer and searched, and I was like, "Huh. Lo and behold, yep, it is." And, and I have always been into meditation and finding different ways that you can let the day-to-day craziness go.
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm.
Ely : And which is kinda what's led me to Bushido, which is a whole different piece and, um, that we could talk about. But, um, that was where I was like, "Okay, I bet that would be a great form of meditation," 'cause it's just the process of the understanding the flow of what actually happens. Because there's, like, eight steps to loosening an arrow.
Dani Raschel: Uh-huh.
Ely : And most people don't think about it. It's like, "Okay, stick the arrow on the string, pull back, let go."
But there is a lot more to it, and then, and if you want to get good at it, you actually have to be very conscious of those things and do 'em in a very fluid motion. Mm. And that's what makes you good. And so I was like, "Hmm, this is kinda cool." And so, like I said, I took the one class, immediately fell in love with it.
I mean, it was a series of classes, but it was, like, a month long or something like that. Um, but I immediately fell in love with it and just got sucked in hard. And-
Dani Raschel: And yeah, it sounds like when you go all in, you go all in.
Ely : I do.
Dani Raschel: You do.
Ely : I, I do. I don't go in all... I don't get into a lot of different stuff. Like, I'm not somebody who does a lot of stuff. Adventure, you know, you were talking about learning new things, it's like I don't have a lot of things that I'm like, "Yeah, I'm super excited about learning 552 new hobbies this week." Not me. And when I pick something, I stick with it forever. My daughter used to, um, used to joke about the fact that I'm like a dog with a bone.
I won't let go once I have something.
Dani Raschel: But there's a superpower in and of that. You know, again, going back to, is, I, it is Jim Rohn again. Mm-hmm. I just, I've been obsessed. He says-
Ely : He has, he says good stuff.
Dani Raschel: He really does.
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: And he's, he spoke, this last one I heard, he spoke to- Spend five years being good at one thing.
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: And he's like, "So many people- Yeah ... will try to balance all the things and try to... And the disadvantage there is you be- you become good at none of it."
Ely : Right.
Dani Raschel: Whereas- It's jack
Ely : of all trades.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: And, and that's fine. You can be okay at it, but if you want to level up your life and get known at something and just excel, it has to be one thing.
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: And, and that was the, that was the time span. It was five years.
Ely : Yeah. Yeah. Jim, Jim's always been... He's always had great stuff. I had the pleasure of seeing him speak, not too long before he passed away.
Dani Raschel: Yeah.
Ely : So I had that, that honor- and it was really cool, and it wasn't even a very big room of people. I mean, there was maybe 100 people, which if anybody knows Jim Rohn, that's like a sm- 100 people in a room, that's tiny compared to-
Dani Raschel: That's in- that's an intimate setting, yeah.
Ely : Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of fun. Um, but, you know, we, we try to so many things. And, and going back to, like, the entrepreneurship side, um, and even going back into, like, especially marketing, it's like, you know, we were talking about we're gonna talk about marketing stuff. Marketing is such a wide net this da- these days, and everybody and their dog in the world of marketing s- tries to be everything to everybody. And, and I, and I did that at one point. I can, I can do video. Yes, I can do video. Can I coach people on stuff? Yes, I can. Can I do social media? Yes.
I have a whole course on how to create unlimited content creation. I have all these different things that I can do, but my specialty and the thing that I zeroed in on is email nurture for your prospects or clients or referral partners.
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm.
Ely : And as soon as I did that, it's like, it was a relief because I got 10 times better at the one thing, and I ain't worried about anything else.
And somebody else comes along and is like, "Oh, will I do this?" Uh, I, I guess. "I'm kinda like you." No, you're not. You know? It, it's like I, I don't have much competition-
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm...
Ely : Because of the fact that everybody else are like, "Oh, yeah, we write your emails." Yeah, but you're, you're doing this and this and this and this, this, and writing emails. You ain't gonna be that good.
Dani Raschel: Right.
Ely : And so that's where if you're... Whether it's both hobby or, or your career, your, um, your special skills, if you can go deep on it, you can get super focused. It relieves a lot of stress.
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm.
Ely : It helps you excel, and, and if you can turn... literally say you're in the top 5% in a certain area That's amazing.
But if you try to do everything for everybody, you'll never achieve that. I said earlier on the archery side, I hit the number one longbow in the Northwest, and to be perfectly honest, in most of those years, and I don't remember all the stats on it, so I, I can't give you exacts, but for several of those years, if you compared my region with the rest of the US, I was like second-
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm
Ely : in the US.
Dani Raschel: That's-
Ely : Which is cool, right?
Dani Raschel: That is very cool. Yeah.
Ely : And I don't, I'm not saying- Oh, I- ... I'm not saying it to brag. I'm saying it because I got very ultra focused in one thing, and I can say that I had that. That's cool to be able to say that, because most people can't.
Dani Raschel: Yeah. That, you know, I appreciate that you drove the hour, but I feel like we're done. Austin, are you ready? You have left us with just so much in just a short amount of time. I just kinda wanna go reflect and think about my life choices. But Ely, w- why did you choose to going, let's, pivot a bit to the business aspect of what you do.
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: Because it's obvious it's very, you're very passionate about it, and that's how I first, met you. Why did you choose email marketing?
Ely : Email is, for me, it was comfortable. It was like the, it was a thing that just felt right. I didn't know this at the time, but I am a writer. Mm. I enjoy writing.
Dani Raschel: Uh-huh.
Ely : And I enjoy writing short form stuff, meaning, uh, you know, nowadays we think of short form as like your reels, right?
Instagram reels and YouTube stuff, and all that kinda stuff. Um, but as a writer, I had no desire to write a book. I like to write blog posts, or now we do, you know, blogs aren't as big of a deal, but we do things like, you know, our LinkedIn posts or Facebook posts, and they're, and you're telling a nugget of a story, and I enjoy that short form, how can you tell a story in a page or page and a half?
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm.
Ely : Uh, and even less. And nowadays we have the, everybody has the attention span of an ant, so it has to be less. So that's where I got into it, and I, and I felt, I started writing for myself.
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm.
Ely : And I was trying, you know, I'm teaching all these classes. I would, I taught everything from, like, back in the day, I had a course that I actually put out called, um, How to Win Friends and Influence Tweeple, because it was one of the very first courses on how to do well on Twitter.
Uh, I still have a DVD of that somewhere. Um, and, and so we were like, "Okay, how do we, you know, how do I put more content out there?" And, and especially emails, like, I wanna follow up with people, but I don't like the pitchy feel that people are doing so much in their emails. So I started just writing things where I'm just sharing tips, tricks, resources, a book that I recommend- things like that. Like, you know, I know you and I have talked about this, The Go-Giver by Bob Burg. Um, one of my favorite books, and I love sharing that one, and I share it so much. I, I always joke about the fact that Bob's gonna give me a commission check one of these days and I can retire. Um, but I would take things like that and say, "Hey, you know, here's a book I read.
This is what I got out, this is what I got out of it. Hopefully it's useful for you, too. Let me know what you think." And people started replying back and thanking me for the recommendation, and they'd read the books and then come back to me and tell me what they got out of it. And it was very conversational, which is, for me, kind of important, right?
It's like relationship building over this text format, only not texting. Cause back when I started this, texting wasn't really much of anything at that point.
Dani Raschel: Uh-huh.
Ely : Uh, we still had, pretty sure we still had to pay per text at that day. Those-
Dani Raschel: were the days.
Ely : Yeah. Those are the days, yeah. I wish we could go back to those. We'd get a whole lot less of them. Um, but it was all about sharing something in these nuggets.
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm.
Ely : And, and that's what I got comfortable and got good at. And then other people started coming to me and going, "All right, Eli, who's your guy? Who's doing this stuff for you?" I'm raising my hand, going, "Uh, me."
And they're like, "Cool. Here's my credit card. How much?" I'm like, "No, no, I got my own thing going." And eventually they wore me down. So I started helping them. And eventually what came of it was it wasn't just helping with the strategy and implementing, you know, in the CRM and stuff like that, but what I was doing was actually they were wanting me to write for them.
And so I started ghostwriting essentially for my clients. And for anybody who doesn't understand what a ghostwriter's job really is, most people think that ghostwriting is basically you come to me and I'm gonna just write all your stuff for you.
Dani Raschel: Okay.
Ely : And that's not-
Dani Raschel: That's what I thought.
Ely : Yeah. It's not how it works.
Dani Raschel: Okay.
Ely : I'm gonna interview you. I'm gonna pull your stories, and I'm gonna ask deeper questions, and I'm gonna get all that stuff that's already rattling around in your head, and then I'm massaging it into a congruent story. Where the difference is I ain't making anything up.
Dani Raschel: Mm-hmm.
Ely : I am taking your stories, your personality, your experiences, everything that makes you you, and all I'm doing is, is putting it into pretty words. I'm just rearranging the words really. Um, and that's somewhat of a downplay 'cause there is an art to it, but the... For me, like, that's one reason why I have so many people, like, are putting a lot of bad stuff out there, and they can't understand why it doesn't work.
It's because you're not... You lost the heart.
Dani Raschel: Yeah.
Ely : And this is, you know, I, and I don't wanna go down the rabbit hole, but this is one of the problems with AI, is that so many people are... They're just like, "Oh, AI can write all my emails for me." It's like, well, it can. Doesn't mean that they don't suck.
You know? It needs to be you. It needs to be your stories and your experience. And so for me, that's what I'm doing, is I'm pulling all of those nuances and, and looking for not just the words that you say, but how you say them, your tonality, your pacing- all the different things that make you unique.
And you can tell when somebody tells a story. You can, you can see when they get excited. You can see when they get emotional.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : They'll slow down. Their voice will go down, lower. And so I'm paying attention to all those details, and then I translate that into how the words sit on a page.
Dani Raschel: Was this formal training, or is this something you've just learned from- you know, kinda in- the moment human relations?
Ely : Little bit of both. I learned copywriting early on. I, again, I was a stu- you know, as a, as a learner. So I read some great books on copywriting when I first started. I learned from, people like Bob Bly, uh, Copywriter's Handbook, phenomenal book.
Uh, Dan Kennedy is the godfather of direct response marketing. There's a lot of different people out there in the marketing world that I learned from because I was trying to figure out how to, how to use all this stuff in my business, my web design business, so I can try to pay the bills, right?
Dani Raschel: Of course.
Ely : Um, and then over time, I just... I found my own niche to it and my, the, my way of doing it, 'cause there's a lot of stuff that it's great stuff, but it doesn't work in certain markets, and those tend to be some of the markets that I do like to work in. Much more relational based, less transactional based. And so people that are in the B2B space where you're a founder, I'm a founder, we're t- and I wanna talk to you.
I wanna make sure that you know that I'm here for you, and I care about your success. You're not just a number, not just a transaction to me. And when you... Like, for my clients, that's the type of relationship that they have as well. And so it's a very different conversation than, "Hey, by the way, we got a buy one, get one free sale."
And so that's kinda where I went down very, very deep into that rabbit hole, and I found that it... That's what works for me, and that's what works for the clients that I'm working with. We get amazing results, and it's all because of we change how the communication is done. It's all about building heart, building relationship, building trust. I always say, you know, we've always heard that business is done by people who you know, like, and trust.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : But I say it's more know, like, trust, and have loyalty with. And you can't create loyalty from somebody who just asks you for money. It's just not gonna happen. And so that's where, that's kinda where my whole framework and methodology comes from.
I don't know a lot of people that do it. Matter of fact, I have a lot of people that tell me, it's like, "Hey, I know people who write emails, but I've never heard anybody write it like you're talking about." I'm like, "Okay, cool." You know?
Dani Raschel: That, yeah, that's your-
Ely : Very unique...
Dani Raschel: your superpower. And I think for those of us who are on LinkedIn, we experience this all the time, the cold email, right?
Yeah. I mean, it's, and you would make, you make the connection with someone, like, "Oh, we have a couple mutual connections, okay."
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: And then the, the first thing you receive is, "Hey, I want to sell you this." Yeah. "So here's my..." And then it's like, "I want to sell you this. Here's my calendar. Make scheduled time."
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: It's like, one, you're, you're sel- I don't know who you are.
Ely : Right.
Dani Raschel: You're selling me, and I have to put in the work to make the appointment. Like, come on.
Ely : Yeah.
Dani Raschel: Does this really work for you?
Ely : Yeah. It's, and unfortunately, that's happened so much, both on email and on LinkedIn. Um, and I reach out to people. I mean, I, I'm doing prospecting just like everybody else, but it's, it, I come from a place of, "Hey, you know, tell me more about your business. What types of clients are you working for? Who are your referral partners?" Something that- Mm-hmm ... we, you do a lot in SCN. I'm coming from that. Once the, the relationship has been established and I think there's a way I can help them, I will, you know, I'll say, "Hey, I got some ideas," or, "I noticed something I'd like to bring up, and I'd love to help you if you're interested."
But I'm building the relationship first, and a lot of times I'm looking at them and they, I may not be able to help them, but I want, I want to introduce them to somebody else.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : And the, and that's where that goes along with just some of the basics of good communication should come from.
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : You know, that's, that's the goal with everything we do, is build a relationship so people want to do business with us. And, and it's, I mean, it works on a personal level, too. I mean, how many times have you had somebody where you really just don't want to go hang out with them? We've all been there, right?
Ely : Yes. Well, there's a reason for that. Because maybe they're always asking for something. Maybe they never pay when you go out to drinks. You know? I mean, maybe they're just whiny all the time, you know? I mean, they, we all have a billion different reasons, but if you can figure out how you can definitely not be that person- people will be attracted to that, and people will want to do business with you, or they want to hang out with you. And that's just, it's just communication skills. It's being self-aware-
Dani Raschel: Yes...
Ely : and realizing the, again, it goes back to the what are your, what are your quirks?
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : You know, what are the things that, uh, what are the things that you say? Stop and think about the conversation you had last night with so-and-so, you know? What did you say? How did you say it? What did that look like? You know, I mean, I've had times in my life, and one was not even that long ago, it was when I moved here, um, where I realized I had to stop and realize, look at myself and go, "You know what?"
Life was a mess. I mean, I, I moved across the country to restart my entire life. And when I did that, I wasn't a very friendly person, and I was a whiner. And I realized, I was like, "Well, I don't know. I know why nobody else wants to hang out with me. I don't wanna hang out with me." And you have to have that self-awareness- to catch that and change that.
Dani Raschel: Mm.
Ely : And when you... And, you know, you're never gonna be perfect. I know I'm not. But when you can figure that out, now you make it about them-
Dani Raschel: Yes ...
Ely : and make the conversation is about them and how you can help them, and even sometimes just listening to them. But as long as it's about them and not about you, you change the entire dynamic of the relationship.
And, like, from an email perspective- 95% of the emails that I send are something for them. Most of them do not talk about my business.
Dani Raschel: Mm.
Ely : And even when- Mm-hmm ... they do talk about my business, I'm telling them, "Hey, here's something that's worked for us. You should try it."
Dani Raschel: Yes.
Ely : So it's not even, "Hey, here's something that worked for us.
Get on a call and I'll show you how to do it, and it'll be this much money." You know? I'm not doing that. I'm saying, "Hey, here's something that worked. Give it a try. Let me know how it works."
Dani Raschel: I'm reading, I'm rereading right now, uh, How to Win Friends and Influence People- Mm-hmm ... by Dale Carnegie. It's a classic.
Ely : It's a classic- Yep ...
Dani Raschel: That I just got my hands on. And the, the first, the very first guest on this podcast, Jeremy Lenox, recommended it- last year, and I was already late to the party last year, 'cause this book has been out forever. I didn't-
Ely : Oh yeah. The book's been around forever. Yeah. It, it's older than both of us, I think.
Dani Raschel: Exactly. Uh, yeah. And one of the things that, that Dale speaks to is, is that.
Ely : Mm-hmm.
Dani Raschel: Listen to the other person, appreciate that there's another viewpoint, and something that stuck with me, a story he told in the book that stuck with me, and I think it's especially just true for today, where so much feels divided...
Dani Raschel: Before you go, my conversation with Ely was too good to fit in one sitting, so I split it in two. What you just heard was part one, and we covered a lot. Why finding your people matters, when you're starting over in life, how to walk into a room full of strangers when every instinct is telling you, "Get out of here."
Why going deep on one skill beats being a little good at everything, and yes, archery as a form of meditation
But the part that I really love is still ahead. In part two, Ely gets into the why underneath all of it, the seven virtues he's built his marketing and even his life around, where they came from, and how some very old ideas about how we treat each other hold up in a world that feels more divided by the day.
It gets honest, it gets personal, and of course, I'm still thinking about it. So don't wander off. Part two is right behind this one.
I'm Dani Raschel Chou, and this is With Hat and Cattle, stories from people who walk the walk and leave you better off for listening.
As always, if this resonated, send it to someone you care about.
This is how the community grows, and this is how we all rise together.
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