The Contact Sport of Business - Mike Nurre on 35 Years of Showing Up (The Transcript)

TL;DR

Mike Nurre has spent 35+ years as a business broker and community organizer in Dallas, and his philosophy is deceptively simple: give first, show up in person, and know when to walk away. In this conversation, he shares the frameworks, mentors, and hard-won lessons behind a career built entirely on relationships and doing the actual work.

Key Takeaways

1. Business is a contact sport. You have to be present, make the ask, and stay in the game even before you have all the answers. Mike once walked out of a pitch meeting having sold something he had no idea how to deliver. His solution: get on the phone and find someone who did, then share the work.

2. Give before you get — and then give more. Leads, referrals, introductions with no strings attached. The return ratio might be 4:1 or 10:1, and it might take five years. It comes back.

3. "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered." Knowing when to exit a business, a deal, or a chapter is its own skill. Greed, or staying too long for a little more, is usually what costs people the gains they spent years building.

4. Life runs in thirds: learning, earning, returning. Knowing which phase you're in shapes every decision about where to invest your time, energy, and attention.

5. You are your own best advocate. Nobody tells your story better than you do. Waiting to be discovered is not a strategy. You have to be the initiator.

6. The in-person meeting still changes everything. One coffee, one handshake, one real conversation does more than months of email.

7. Mentorship isn't always formal. Some of Mike's most formative lessons came from sitting quietly in a room, watching how someone else handled a deal, and taking small notes. Proximity is its own education.

Questions Answered

1. What does it actually mean to treat business like a contact sport?

2. Why do you have to give before you can get, and how long do you wait?

3. How do you know when it's time to walk away from a deal, a business, or a chapter?

4. What does it take to build a community when nobody gives you permission?

5. What did Mike's mentors teach him that no classroom could?

6. Is the in-person meeting really dying or are we just afraid to make the ask?

7. What does "investing in yourself" actually look like across a 35-year career?

8. When entrepreneurship gets hard, what keeps you going?

The Full Conversation

Dani: Welcome back to With Hat and Cattle, where we bring you stories from people who walk the walk and leave you better off for listening. I'm Dani, and today we have a different set-up. If you're watching on YouTube, usually we have the two couches, but we have a sofa, and that's just because I've had a crazy week, and I booked the wrong studio, but we are working with it.

Today we have joining us Mike Nurre, who is... He's... you have worn so many hats. You are known as a financial advisor, business broker, right?

Mike: True.

Dani: You've written columns. You have sat with journalists and helped them write columns.

Mike: Yes.

Dani: And you have the unofficial title of being the mayor of Casa View.

Mike: That is correct.

Dani: That is correct. When you hear that, does it make you laugh, or do you feel that it's something that you've earned?

Mike: Um, a little of both. I, I grin, I guess. I was honored to be named that by the, uh, magazine The Ad- Advocate of East, East Dallas Lakewood area. But it just was a culmination of a lot of people doing things, and that has been the renaissance of Casa View.

Um, it took some soul searching, but the thing I liked about it, everybody wants a village-but nobody wants to be a villager.

Dani: Oh.

Mike: A lot of different things. Totally different. Oh, yeah, we've got this great organization, all that. Well, that's your village, but where are the villagers? Who's gonna go out and knock on doors and see if we... go sit in city council meetings, things of that nature.

And carry the banner for our greater neighborhood. That's what some of us did for a while and, uh, that was, um, sidebar, one of the several things.

Dani: What does it take to be a villager?

Mike: Um, roll up your sleeves... do what needs to be done. Um, voice your opinion because the leaders may not have all the answers.

Myself and a co-chairman, we didn't have them all. We listened to people. In fact, one lady in our group, uh, really carried the ball to put together an area plan, which just rocked that part of the city because all of a sudden, a developer or anybody, even owners, before they remodeled, had to ch- they would send them, "Have you checked the Greater Casa View Area Plan?"

What we wanted, the ideas, uh, specifications were all in there. So, so-

Dani: You are, you are speaking to my city planner heart. I understand that completely.

Mike: Oh, well, I forgot. That's right.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: Your, your educational background.

Dani: It is. Yeah. So you have such a past. And so when I… When I was doing my research on you, I couldn't decide where we should even begin. So I think it best if you tell us a little bit about you. So when someone's sitting across from you, what would be the first thing that you want them to know about you?

Mike: Well, I-

Dani: Given your, given your wide background.

Mike: Know that I'm fairly genuine. I don't carry grudges. Um, I hope not to have too much baggage. And now at this age and stage of life, you think you're past a lot of that. You've made some real decisions. I think there's a break point at 40, I think again at 60, and now I don't wanna even tell you how old I am. Um, and when they have met me, I hope they go away feeling a little bit better and knowing they have someone they can, um, deal with on an honest and candid basis.

And I'll reciprocate in kind type thing.

Dani: You speak to your break point at 40, and my ears perked up because, you know, I am in my early 40s. I'm just on the right side of 40.

Mike: Oh, good.

Dani: Um, why do you feel that first breaking point comes at 40?

Mike: Well, it, it more or less did for me. Like, I was, um, I think telling one of my sisters, during the 30s you go out and grab for everything. You're gonna try every hot trend, every restaurant. Then at the turn in the 40s, you kinda say, "Wait a minute. Do I wanna try as many, or do I get comfortable with the old standby? Have my Mexican food place, have my Italian food place." So I'm kinda in a groove. I've set back and melded. I've seen enough of the world, be it business, education, uh, family raising-

Dani: Mm-hmm

Mike: that you're kind of... 'Cause your kids are probably maybe junior high age in their 40s, that type of thing. Um, and that's just a place where you, you kind of... Also, I think in business, that's when a man especially, I guess, starts making, and women too these days, career choices, something. Am I on the right path?

Because everybody ha- thinks that clock's ticking at 65. Well, this generation, it should be ticking till 68, I believe, is the retirement age.

Dani: Even longer, yeah.

Mike: It's a little different. Even longer. But my point there is they would make a change, uh, maybe in a career or something. I just know that was the time I kinda got itchy feet.

I did it once in the early, so I'm going against my, early 30s as well, but, so.

Dani: Okay. So what was the fir- your first business venture?

Mike: I was, uh- I was a credit reporter for Dun & Bradstreet, which is a national credit reporting-for businesses. So that's where I kinda got a mini, uh, grad degree, 'cause you had to go out and deal with balance sheets and how businesses worked, and it was, it was great. And I was there for about four years. The last two years I was a salesman. Can you tell?

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: Well, I kept seeing these guys, they always had good tans, and they seemed to come in on their own time, and I kept saying, "What are those guys now?"

"They're salesmen, Mike. They're salesmen."

"Oh, I wanna be one of them."

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: So that worked out. Yeah. Um, and then I, I went into, um, private... No, no. Then I went into Xer- I went to Xerox, a huge organization in those days. Mm. And one of the new go-go, I compare it to Apple of today, the way they were just always a little bit ahead with, uh, benefits, social responsibilities- all this ESG stuff. Xerox, IBM in those days, they were kind of the leaders in that. They were pioneers.

Um, spent some time there, then I went into small private businesses. Um, an oil and gas consulting firm in [inaudible]. I was the new business development person. And then I went with a, um, a fundraising business in oil and gas.

It was legit.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: You know how that goes. And then, and then I went with a real estate investment firm, put together limited partnerships, and then that whole industry went away 'cause the tax benefits were changed in the late '80s.

Dani: Oh.

Mike: So that's how I found myself on the street, and, uh, the father of one of the guys on our firm said, "You've got all these contacts. You've got our whole list of people I've given you. Why don't you guys get into this thing called investment banking?" I said, "I don't wanna be a bank-" "No, this isn't banking. This is putting capital together, helping people buy businesses, find businesses-sell businesses." So we started doing that a bit, and then, um, the two brothers, sons I worked for decided to stick with real estate.

This is the days savings and loan went away. Then I evolved into doing eat what you kill.

Dani: Yeah, yep.

Mike: I mean, that type of thing, uh-

Dani: Yep ...

Mike: With, uh, buying and selling businesses. Since about '89 I've done that. Been with two firms, then I formed my own in 2007.

Dani: Nice. Yeah. You touched on something that seems to be a theme in many of the episodes about networking, and, you know, we've heard it expressed many different ways. Your network is your net worth, you know.

Mike: Right. It's your net-

Dani: Who you know can get you into the right rooms. But you approach it- from a heart of service, and I believe you- you've been quoted as saying, you know, to, to get, you have to give, give, give, and give. Can we, can we double, like, double-click on that?

Mike: Sure. Um, you have to give, give, give and just be out there. This i- this world of business to me, it's a contact sport.

I have gotten assignments sometimes, walked out with the man I worked for, he turned to me and said, "You... We got the gig, but you don't have any idea how to do what we just sold."

"No."

"What are you gonna do?"

"I'm gonna get back in the office and pound that phone till I find somebody who does, and share with them."

Other times, you're just gonna give a lead, a reference, and not expect anything, and it will come back. It's casting out on the water, and it will happen. Um, it's a contact sport, as I tell my grandson.

You've got to build that network. To me, it used to be if you don't have a network by the age of 30, it's kinda tough, and you should be. I'm talking about back in, when you're high school. Um, college of course is a b- And then just afterwards when you're in your first job, you just need to build a network- as far as that goes. And to get, you've gotta give, give, give. It may be nothing expected. Ideally, you'd love to say, "Hey, I gave you an idea or a lead, and then six months later, you call me up with a lead." Right. It works. It works. People say, "Well, how do you get your, um, clients?" I do the old CIA answer, "If I told you, I'd have to kill you."

But it's just being present. A lot of things.

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: I have, um... Like, when the DMA left Fair Park and moved downtown, one of the soccer dads happened to be the director of the DMA, and I told him, we were out watching our kids play soccer, "Harry, I gotta raise my visibility. What can you get me into?"

Calls the next week and says, "Hey, we're getting a committee that's gonna oversee our move from Fair Park-" the original, to downtown Dallas, where it is. I want... I'm in. It was a fan- I mean, I was sitting in a room with some heavy hitters that I was probably in my early 30s or so.

Dani: You speak to, you know, you weren't afraid to make the ask.

Mike: True.

Dani: Right? And for some people, it's hard, whether it's they have imposter syndrome or-just the thought of rejection, right? That can be enough to stop someone. So what... Is that just something you've naturally overcome? Or-

Mike: A little of both.

Dani: Yeah? ...

Mike: And then just the initiative, that you have to do it. I mean, if, um, you do a lot of things on your own, your business interests, um, you have to be the initiate- initiator. You have to do it.

Dani: You're your, your best advocate.

Mike: Exactly. You tell your story better than anybody else does. Um- Just do it. Just try it. You're not gonna get everything, um, and you don't have to stay on that board or whatever. But it will, especially as a young person, it's hard. You've got a family probably you're raising, and there's some other requirements, uh, for your time. But you do need to get your lines out, as I call them, you know?

Dani: As you were coming up in all this, do you... You know, we hear a lot about work-life balance, and the more that I've spoken with entrepreneurs and executives, and just people going after, you know, their what they call BHAGs, like big, hairy, audacious goals-

Mike: Yes.

Dani: They're… I feel it's more seasons of life. So seas- there's gonna be some seasons where there is no balance. And then there'll be some seasons where you are taking that, that rest. Were you able to find a work-life balance, or how did that go for you?

Mike: I, I did, but believe it or not, I think it was, except for one of my corporate jobs, which may be why I didn't, um, I was able to carve out enough to be... I only have one child, a son.

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: Um, I was able to carve out what needed to be done to have probably more balance to life than to work there for a while. I mean, when I knew it was important. And the way I look at it, like I told this years ago, I heard this guy. Life is three things. The first third, three thirds obviously.

One third is learning. The second third is earning, and the last third is returning. That's it. Isn't that great? Years of learning. 'Cause I know I went back to night school to get an MBA, but I just knew I needed it. I, I need to have that box checked.

And everybody goes to that point where, uh-oh, if I wanna move on. Uh, so you have the learning. Then you have earning. That's your career. But then you get to that 60 or 65 if you've been... Then that's the time to be returning. And we found that with a lot of, um, people in these neighborhood groups. They're there. They're not going anywhere, and the seniors in Dallas were still getting a strong push for “To die” in place.

I know that's kind of- strong term, but that's what they wanna do. They wanna live in their homes for as long as they can.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: So that's that returning. And they're active. Some of them are really active. Uh, I know in two or three organizations in Far East Dallas, their leaders are definitely active, and they are post-60, if not post something else.

Dani: You, so that's a nice way to just segue into your community work. Let's talk a little bit about that. So why are you known as the unofficial mayor of Casa View? Oh, we're gonna, we're, we're gonna get some water for this. Okay.

Mike: That's right. Yeah, you're right.

Dani: I'm ready for a good story. All right.

Mike: That's right. Um, my mother always had this saying, "If it's to be, it's up to me." And, uh- I drove that point home when we missed out on a public library. Our library got closed and was changed to another, consolidated into a bigger one. And I heard this happening, got in on the tail end of it. I just moved, I moved out to East Dallas in, uh, 2001, and, um, we realized we didn't have any dog in the hunt.

We didn't have any voice, and I realized what the game had to be done as far as that goes. So we, we, uh, formed our own organization because I just wanted to create some kind of conduit so we get some visibility. East of the lake has always felt like they've never, um, been recognized or whatever. I heard from people all the time, and the three previous council members, city council, to me before I moved there, only one had come around that area, knocked on doors.

One out of three. Come on. And yet, 50,000, 60,000 people are in just that area.

Dani: Right.

Mike: I'm talking east of, uh, Casa Linda Shopping Center and back to the southeast some more. So there was an opportunity, but more importantly, there was a need to create a community organization, put together the individual little, um, neighborhood associations as one bigger organization.

That's what I chose to do that. And again, no one really wanted to pick up the ball. But once it got started, um, that's sort of what it is. I mean, we had, um, you know from y- your urban planning experience, we had to go and have public meetings.

And, uh, we had them in big venues and had pretty good turnouts, but I'll never forget one night, a guy just...I guess I was speaking.

He said, "Well, who gave you the right to do this?"

"Nobody."

"Well, what do you got..."

We just did it. We just took it. And as we got into it, somebody would spot us, tell us, "Oh, you need to do this."

"Gotta do that."

Fun. We learned together.

Dani: I love that.

Mike: So that's, so it was, it was to fill a need that was there as far as that goes.

Dani: Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. So as you became an advocate for your community-

Mike: Yeah ...

Dani: As you know, you mentioned there was some pushback. Can you, can we dig into that a little bit deeper when... You know, I'm thinking back to, uh, you know, we do a lot of community engagement.

Mike: Yes.

Dani: And it is hard, and I feel even in Texas it's maybe a little bit harder because of this identity of being a Texan and, you know, I don't wanna-- You can't tell me what to do, you know?

Mike: True.

Dani: Um, there's so, so much just of your identity tied to I'm a, you know, landowner, this is my land, and freedom. And- Right ...there's this whole identity-associated with being a Texan.

Mike: You, you know, we've had that kind of challenge, and we've carried the ball usually against some projects, but we've also supported several out there, and it's been, uh, rewarding to us as a community to have a new, uh, development put in of, uh, uh, under f- or 55-and-over housing or, uh, rent, uh s- uh, you know, minimized sal- uh, rents-because they have to be the, of the AMI.

Dani: Right.

Mike: Average median income. And, um, that's, that's a challenge, but if you get some, you know, as we say, if you get some pelts on the wall, some trophies, it, it kinda adds up. You can get that done. Um- I have really enjoyed... I'm on the Senior Affairs Commission for downtown, for the city of Dallas, and I'm one of 15, and I found that to be a challenge.

I mean, there is city hall bureaucracy. But there's also, again, um, you- you th- put a lot on the wall and w- two out of three stick. And it's... If they stick, they stick. They stick. Because they've gotta be done.

Dani: Yeah. Um- So you'll have those, you know, that are the wins. But many times in development, in this whole process, it's finding that middle ground.

Mike: Oh, yes.

Dani: Yeah. And so as-

Mike: The give and take.

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: Yeah, okay, they want an easement bad. Well, we didn't. Um, it's tough, and I love East Dallas to death, but - we lost an organization that I- I even donate money to today, uh, the Magdalene House for Women, uh, alcoholics that are coming th- out of rehab. A tremendous organization.

We had them book a big lot behind a church that was dying, that needed to sell that lot. Anyway, long story short, just some people work that immediate neighborhood and they just... They were just worried that, "Oh, we'll have these people ... "

No, they don't open till 9:00. There's no overnight. And they had been in a neighborhood for 22 years, and nobody knew what they did.

Dani: Right.

Mike: It is just a wonderful story. Now they're on Swiss Avenue. No, no, I'm sorry. They're on Gaston. Have a huge, beautiful two-story building that we would've had.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: Now we've got townhomes going in. They'll be nice. They'll be big. Um, but I sure would liked to have had that.

Dani: You know, so much of that is education. I got to work on a case, again, sometimes, and I... Sometimes in city planning when I worked on the municipal side, it can be… It's so challenging. It can be a beat down. And my mentor, well, she was, you know, my boss, but also my mentor.

She's, "I'm gonna give you this case." It's, she's like, "It's g-..." She's like, "It's a feel-good one." She's like, "It's gonna be hard, but it's good work."

And it was for a tran- basically transitional housing for youth, young girls aged out of foster care. Right. You know, the day they turn 18, they're given-

Mike: Yes ...

Dani: The bag of belongings, and they are turned out.

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Dani: And so this is to provide some housing, and the same thing was happening. You know, neighbors were like, "We don't want these kids in the neighborhood," and there was concern. So we brought the organization and the neighbors to a restaurant, and we all sat together. And, we basically broke bread and got to understand each other.

And then once that education happened, and the mission was stated, and then, I mean, they obviously had done work before, and they were able to prove the success in other places.

Mike: Yes.

Dani: The neighbors were like, "Oh, we get it now." And it was a completely different-tone at the end. And I don't know if it ever got built. You know, a lot of times in planning, you work on these great projects, and then they just... The financing doesn't happen, the market changes, something, and then it- Or- ... doesn't get built.

Mike: Right.

Dani: So I'm not sure if it ever got built. I actually should go-

Mike: Oh ...

Dani: And check. But-you know, so much of that comes down to-

Mike: Some of you get involved in personally, it sounds like you did, you know?

Dani: Right.

Mike: This is really a good call. Well, that's what happened to me at the Magdalene House. I heard their testimonies and went to a couple of their meetings, and it was just... It was good. It was one that got away. Um- interesting.

Dani: So you're giving me all these great opportunities like, oh, we can pivot here. We can go here.

Mike: That's fine.

Dani: You, I mean, again, I think it just speaks to the richness of the life that you lived.

Mike: Right.

Dani: But, you know, when we spoke before you came on the show, I mentioned I would love to speak to you a little bit about just the financial background and maybe some takeaways, you know, that'll come about that the community can use.

Mike: Okay. You mean like in the business of buying and selling businesses, someone's listening, has that or knows somebody?

Dani: Mm-hmm. Or even you mentioned this, I love this quote. Yeah. You, I mean, you're gonna have to write your book eventually. I mean, we're all waiting on it.

Mike: Aphorisms, by, Mike Nurre.

Dani: Yeah. Exactly. Um, what did Benjamin Franklin have? Where it was basically all his... Was it Poor Richard's Almanack?

Mike: Exactly.

Dani: That's just a bunch of his quotes.

Mike: Good, yes.

Dani: That's, that's what you're gonna end up-giving us. You, you said, "Pigs get fat, and hogs get slaughtered."

Mike: Exactly.

Dani: Yes. What does that mean?

Mike: Well- There's a point in an investment or a point in, uh, operating a business where you've just…Another phrase is they've stayed too long at the fair. They should have sold as the business-

Dani: Mm. Mm-hmm ...

Mike: got up, got to a peak, started to level a little bit. That's when they should look at selling and monetizing, taking some of the money out or all of it out. Take- Yeah ... buy, sell the business.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: Of course, I'm a little self-serving, 'cause that's what I'd like to help them do. Okay? But you can also help them for years. Um, I've worked on businesses four or five years I've known before they were ready to sell, or we like say, "You gotta pretty her up, take her to the dance." That's just gotta be done.

Dani: Yes.

Mike: But you can ... And it's like even in the stock market, there's a theory where you get so much, get a return, take some off the table.

If not hogs can get slaughtered. You're sitting out there, and then a big break comes, and all of a sudden the stock goes down, whatever. So it's a matter of being a little too greedy too long. You need to have a balance, and that's where a financial advisor, or again, someone if you're talking about the business side of your, uh, portfolio, um, you know, your net worth, you might talk to a good financial planner.

There's, there are a lot of them in town that are always knocking on my door. “Well, Mike, I don't have any leads, but when you sell it, be sure Mr. Jones, the seller, with all that money, comes to see me or something.”

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: So sometimes I do that as well.

Dani: You know, I've been listening to a lot of Jim Rohn lately.

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Dani: And he speaks to, there's people who complain, "Oh, I never get a break. I never get a break." And he's like, "There's breaks happening all around you. It's just that you're not aware 'cause you're not looking, and you're not looking 'cause you're not prepared."

Mike: Ooh. Like- That's a, second part is excellent.

Dani: Yeah. Yeah. You know, preparation comes before the success, and that reminds me, one of my favorite sermons the preacher spoke to, everyone wants to be King David, but they forget about all that time he spent with the sheep getting dirty, you know, getting smelly. And-

Mike: That's a good point ...

Dani: I, I mean, I'll come back to that when I don't wanna do the training-for my Ironman.

Mike: Well, there's a famous story of Picasso. He's sitting at a restaurant some, on a beach, coastal town. Uh-huh. A lady walks up, says, "Oh, Mr. Picasso, I love your work. I love your work. Oh, here. Could you... Like, here, could you just write on my napkin, draw something out there?"

So he whips, "Okay. That'll be $25,000."

She goes, "What? All you did was a..." "Lady, I spent 45 years just getting here."

Dani: Yep.

Mike: Name, reputation, success.

Dani: Yes.

Mike: What a portfolio. I mean-... that was a great... So I thought, "You know, that's right. You don't know what has come before to get to this point." You know the old thing of, uh, uh, the religious thing of you were prepared for this moment. You were meant to be here at this time-

Dani: Right ...

Mike: This place, if you take that kind of a cosmic view or something like that.

Dani: Which, you know, um- So that reminded me- Mm ... of what you were just saying about your quote, right? You know, you have to be prepared but not overstay it.

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Dani: Can... How did you learn that lesson?

Mike: Um, overstay with, with something I... Oh, I was going f- two times I was just, uh, you know-

Dani: Tell us ...

Mike: Full disclosure, was going for more bucks. I mean, I had-two offers. I said, "I can't refuse this. This is ridiculous." You know? And, and you just forget going back. I, I was signed on one day, and the next day I was on a private plane to Vail for two weeks to, to kind of hobnob with some people we needed to.

Hello. That was nice.

Dani: Yeah, of course.

Mike: You know, but then, and, but those were two times that I jumped for that. Is that what you mean, going, transition to that? But no, most of the time, that'd be one thing I think, um, people who know me would say, "Oh, no." I think I'm quick-witted. Uh, but Mike's very loyal.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: He, um, uh, not quick-witted, but he's very quick. I like to say sharp. I'm trying to describe my son, who is almost a twin image of me. Um-

Dani: I feel pretty confident in you are quick-witted. You are one of the wittiest people that I know.

Mike: Well, I appreciate that. But you're right. They're out there, and it goes back to what, you know, give, give, give- to maybe get. So that's 4:1 ratio.

It may take 10:1, but... And you never know who's gonna come back.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: I mean, a guy called on, didn't cold call, for, for 2018, and he calls out of the blue in 2023 and said, "Are you in the... still selling businesses?"

"Yes, sir, Mr. Jones, I am."

I had a complete for- You know, it's just one of those things. But we went out, I had a partner at that time, and, um, we just left on good terms. We just knew that, again, he wasn't ready, and then there was more of an issue-

Yeah ... if he really wasn't ready to sell.

But then, um... And it's terrible, and, uh, that business, divorce, death, uh, dissolution of, um, whatever, those are kind of our reasons people sell.

Dani: Right.

Mike: Unfortunately, they wait, again, too long, but nobody knows what, uh, illness is gonna do as, as far as that goes. Yeah. But, um, we and a lot of planners, there's a new, uh, group of people that have a, built an accreditation called exit planning.

Dani: Yes.

Mike: So they come in, and for a year or two, they do what I do. They do it more for a, a fee-based thing, which is very good. Accountants do it all the time.

"Hey, look, I need to get this, I need to sell and be out of here. Kids will be gone. They're in college. They'll be

done, but in three years I need to sell."

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: "So let's get to work on cleaning up the balance sheet or whatever needs to be done." So it's a, it's a service. And then I, um- I'm a people person, so it's easy for me to-

Dani: I couldn't tell

Mike: tell them ... stick my hand out, et cetera, and give a firm handshake. Or if it's you young ladies, I kind of let y'all lead. 'Cause my grandson was asking me, "Well, I can't go up." 'Cause I want him to give a firm handshake- Yeah ... look them in the eye, and always have your name tag on the upper right, 'cause that's where you're looking toward. You should know that.

Dani: That, you'd be surprised how many people don't know that. I just recently learned that a couple months ago.

Mike: Excellent. Excellent. Well, bec- well, you know why. Just physically, you don't see as well. If I come up and shake, "Oh, there's Mike Nerre."

Those are little tricks of the trade, I guess.

Dani: Well, it's tricks, but it's also, those are also soft skills that we're kind of losing as I feel we move more to a digital world, right? Where everything's now on screen.

Mike: Bingo.

Dani: And-

Mike: Social interaction is-

Dani: Mm ...

Mike: Non, nonexistent.

Dani: Right. Like, I enjoy when I get to come into the studio with a guest, because some can't, you know, they're in other states or other cities, and so that's where I am appreciative that we have the technology, so we have all these stories.

But being able to sit and speak to someone face to face, that-

Mike: Bingo ...

Dani: changes everything.

Mike: Bingo. You mentioned earlier about, um, having the meal for the people, bringing them together. Having a meal, or in today's world with the Italian coffee shops I call them, Starbucks.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: There's so much when you meet. All you have to do is meet one time. And just, you just won't believe the, the reaction you'll get, and hopefully the information you'll ach- just the feeling of working. And then you've put that, you don't have to meet them again. Then you can email them. And I tell, I must get a couple, well, when I was work, really pushing it, four or five calls, "Hey, I'm a buyer. I got your name," so and so.

Tell you what I want to do, just a cup of coffee, let's meet. And at that, I can take five, six notes. And we can talk, ask them questions, they can ask me. And it, I, and I know 'em. Next time I talk to them on the phone, I can see John Reynolds, who I met a month ago sitting right in, in my office, and say, "Hey, John."

Dani: Yes.

Mike: I mean, it's just, uh, meeting is so important. I mean, uh, we had a preacher who was big on having meals and things across the table. There's so much can be done. That's that interconnection. And I'm with you. It is gonna get serious. It already has. I mean, um-

Dani: So much, you know, with the disruption that we're seeing with AI, and, you know, now I'm reading that those critical thinking skills that a liberal arts degree-

Mike: Bingo!

Dani: …can give you…

Bingo. I am a-

Dani: Don't discredit that ...

Mike: I am an ambassador, a believer in, um, liberal arts. You learn critical thinking. You know how to write, and you know how to communicate, and some of it has to be done in person. I mean, you have to... When I say communicate, I can communicate. Well, you've gotten to come out your funny bone.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: And, uh, that's right, but you gotta be able to stand up or just even in a group with your peers, answer the question. Um, I just think that is so valuable. There was a professor. I was at a chamber lunch, you know, or some big thing downtown, and the guy at my table was a professor at the UT Southwestern Med School, and we went around and somebody said, "Yeah, we did something like that, Austin College."

And he crossed the table and said, "You went to Austin College?"

I said, "Yeah, I did."

“One thing you can always tell when we have an Austin College graduate in our medical school, they can do two things. They can talk, speak well, and they can write well.”

Dani: Mm.

Mike: They can communicate, and it... I thought, "Wow, I like that." Yeah. Write and speak.

Dani: Those, those are two great things-

Mike: Appreciate that, yeah ...

Dani: To have in your toolbox if you're doing business development.

Mike: Yeah. Well, you're right. Back to, liberal arts thinking. Um, it is just- If I learned anything in college, it was, you know, you hear the phrase, but I learned how to learn.

Dani: Oh.

Mike: And it also plants a major seed that we keep on learning. And some of the people that get my daily epistle, I have a list of say 30 from my- Uh-huh ... college days, and it's just variety of degrees where they are, most of them are retired. But we all continue to do things that we're in a learning process. I mean, it's just, liberal arts, they...You learn how to learn.

You've had your four years. You've got a degree. But at least in my day, 70% of us went on to a graduate school or went on to something else. Well, I didn't right away, but, um, it's just, you learn how to learn, and the, the range of things you learned a little bit about that you can either come back later and dive into-as far as that goes, it's just, um, it's amazing.

Dani: How do you, if you don't mind me asking-how old were you when you came back for your graduate degree?

Mike: Oh, I think I started in '77 and graduated in '79, but we went to Saturday classes and night classes.

Dani: Why was it important for you? You mentioned earlier, you know, it- Um ... checked a box, but...

Mike: Yeah, it checked a box, and this is something, if I was giving career advice, what is your career need that kind of is a box, okay?

I was kind of playing the game, but I was a little bit of fake it till you make it.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: I had no exposure to a balance sheet to, um, just a lot of things I know now are just like, you know, I do so much of. But, um, the business side.

May have... I'd had an economics course. I never had a business course or marketing course.

Some of that I got waived because I'd spent so many years with Xerox that, um, they give you credit for your mark, 'cause you've done a lot of that. I mean, big corporations, it's another advantage. Take advantage of these courses. If you can get on their management track, get on it.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: So what if you don't make it?

But you'll be exposed and learn so much more. It was amazing. Anybody who'd been a salesman at Xerox or IBM back in my day, uh, the, uh, the real estate guys almost mo- automatically hired them. It was almost 100%. It was scary. I remember one summer we had three guys leave and they all had jobs within two weeks.

They had them kind of ready before. All in the real estate, because they knew how to sell. They knew how to plan a day. Was it plan your day, work your plan, or whatever it was.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: So I was, um... was 36, 35.

Dani: Okay.

Mike:. When I went to night school, yeah. And the only reason I did, I went in late one night and the guy was typing. I said, "What are you doing?"

Richard said, "I'm going to grad school."

I said, "What?"

Said, he said, "Yeah."

I said, "Okay, what do you do?"

"Here, make a copy of this. Just fill that out."

So I got in the, we were in the admin office, and I filled the mine out and we said it was really kind of a lark. It won't last.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: And, uh, but what I did like about Xerox, they paid 65% of, uh, books and-fees, and that other 35% you don't collect till you bring a degree in.

I lo- what...

You got enough to get you interested and started. And you had to make a sacrifice- of both your time and your money. At the end, you got your money back.

Dani: Again-

Mike: I mean, that other 35%, I loved it.

Dani: Again, that opportunity is there, and you had to be aware of it-Yes ...in order to take it.

Mike: Yes. Well, I've made some mistakes too, you know.

Dani: Well, that's-

Mike: You, you, but you'll-

Dani: How we learn ... you don't,

Mike: Exactly. Exactly, but, but I would advise somebody to think big, look for these opportunities, and if there's somebody in your organization or in just life in general, go and have that cup of coffee.

Ask them, "Hey, how..." Just like you're doing with me. "How did you get into this? What do you like? What don't you like?"

So it's, uh... And also, I was in an element that I was beginning to realize that-these people speak a little bit different language. I need to know what ROI and IRR and some of that stuff is, so that's another reason, and it, it's helped me.

I mean, I can line up now. These young people, they have got degrees from these bi-

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: They, they're just stories. Yes. I am just amazed at how, how brilliant they are. They are really sharp.

Dani: I hope this makes you grin or, you know- ... maybe even laugh, but that's... So personal development is high on my list. You know, constant be a life learner.

Mike: Mm.

Dani: I'm actually looking into going to finishing school and learning some of these, like, really soft skills of, like, what knife to use. I know a general view.

Mike: Excellent.

Dani: But I-

Mike: Oh, that's another area that's missing. I'm sorry.

Dani: I would just love to learn a little bit more about etiquette.

Mike: I'm married to a Southern lady. Louisiana. Boy. Have somebody, "Oh, would you come on and have a sandwich with us" and all that. Table will be completely laid out.

Dani: I bet. Presentation-

Mike: People can't believe it ...

Dani: is on point.

Mike: And then she says, "Well, these, but then they don't invite me back." They're not going to. You've blown them away.

Yeah. How can they reciprocate this? Where's the placemat and a nice little thing and one thing of flowers? No.

She j- It's just no. Someone's coming. And, um, yeah, there's a lot of that.

They, there's some manners and-

Dani: Yeah ...

Mike: There's some things they know, and it's just... Now I'm going back to tradition.

Dani: No, tell me.

Mike: I mean, that's, if you're doing that, that's great. I mean, that is tremendous. Not many, I don't think, in your age. You're so fast-paced.

Dani: Yes.

Mike: Come in, get your sweats on, microwave or not, but something quick. You know-

Dani: Yeah ...

Mike: And then go work out. I mean, it's just a rapid pace.

Dani: Life is, life has changed so much that, yes, that's kind of where we're at right now.

Mike: Right.

Dani: I was in a, recently went to a room where it was a m- many retired executives. And it was because there was a professor from Newhouse that was giving a talk, Shelly Palmer, who is known on LinkedIn as being one of the top voices in technology and AI specifically.

Mike: Really? Okay.

Dani: And so I asked to go, and I was able, I was able to get, uh, a seat at the table, and it was another level. I, I mean-

Mike: I do love that. Yeah. It's great, yeah.

Dani: It was. Oh. I felt so out of place, and I was so for-

Mike: But you were a sponge, I hope, and just took it.

Dani: Oh, 100%, yes. And it was... I mean, one of the executives, you know, 'cause I'm kind of being a fly on the wall, 'cause I don't know anyone, but they all know each other.

Mike: Yeah.

Dani: Was he grabbed his phone and was showing the other person the contact info for Sam... Is it Sam Altman, the-

Mike: Oh ...

Dani: Chief at-

Mike: Yes ...

Dani: At OpenAI.

Mike: OpenAI.

Dani: And I, I was like, that's when I realized. Wow. I go, oh, this is a-

Mike: So much connected.

Dani: Yes. I was like, this is a very different room than what I'm used to. And at that point, I go, you know what? I want to invest in some of these, these etiquette and manners just to make-

Mike: Yeah.

Dani: And it's not that, you know, some people are like, "No, you shouldn't think that way. You know, you belong wherever," and I understand that-

Mike: There's a part and place for that ...

Dani: And I get it, but-

Mike: And it may not be a full, what do you call, deep dive into that world-

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: …finishing, but there's some things that someday you may-

Dani: I may ...

Mike: …may pick up. I just-

Dani: And it's an investment in me.

Mike: Yes. And that's what I do I, it wasn't exactly a mentorship, you asked me, so a mentor, but- I was fortunate-

Dani: Oh, we're gonna get there. ...

Mike: Fall, okay, fall into a, a situation with one of the... He's passed now, what a great guy, who put together a deal, and he and his right-hand person, I just sat there like I was on a, a rollercoaster.

I was just hanging on. And my client, he wanted to buy a business. He was a whiz in that business. He wanted to buy the business he worked for.

And I learned so much when this guy... I just, I just sat there and, oh, probably little, took little notes, and-

Dani: Yeah ...

Mike: It was incredible. I learned so much. I even, some of it I use today.

And I also do that when I get into situations, because, you know, as an intermediary or an agent, you're kind of on the sidelines, you know?

And the, the two principals are dealing. And, um, you just can learn a lot and build on that. But you gotta get out there and get in the mix and get your-

Dani: Yes ...

Mike: As we say, get your teeth kicked in some or get your, uh, 10 nos before you get maybe a maybe.

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: Maybe, as far as that goes. Well, that's great.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: Good to hear that.

Dani: So I am glad you spoke to the mentor, because I don't, I don't e- think there is one episode that we've done where someone didn't speak to someone else who helped get them in the room, who basically saw something in them before our guest saw it in themselves.

Mike: Right.

Dani: And I would love to know who mentored you.

Mike: Well, I'd say there might be three.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: Um, at Xerox…But every time came up to interview for a manager, well, I'd done the management track and all these, like, things. Always seemed to, seemed to get knocked out for various reasons.

That's not a sob story. But one time, one of the managers said, "Well, Mike, do you really wanna be a sales manager of a team here?"

I said, "Well, yeah, of course I do."

"Do you really want to? You need to do a little introspect."

That wasn't the word he used, whatever he said.

"And if you do, you'll know you do, and you'll start exhu- uh, ex- exhibiting that."

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: And I thought about that, and I thought, "Well, maybe I'm not. I'm just a good super salesman." But then I started taking some... And that helped me. I just started, um, acting and thinking like if I were a manager, and I was early in my career. I was probably 29, 28, something like that.

Then another time was that situation, um, that I told you about, and it was, like, the second thing I'd ever done, and it was the...To this day, it's probably the largest transaction I've ever done in transaction value. Um- But I just learned so much. I was energized, and he... If I needed something, I went, went back to him a couple times and said, "Hey, how does this roll?"

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: And he'd take a minute and say, "This is bad. This is great. You need to strengthen this."

And that was a me- mentorship. And then, um, somebody that I went to work for because he really hardly recruited me to his firm in, um, '99. I said, "Well, why are you so hard on picking me?"

"Well, I like your initiative. You're self-contained, and I need an investment banker piece of my business. I've got these guys. We sell distressed debt, or we”…

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: It w- in other words, 90% of their business was one thing, but he had six guys doing that. He needed one to do the... And I think you can do it all. I said, "Well, really?"

And he said, "Well, I've seen you work."

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: "I've heard you speak. Um, we've met at some of these networking events."

And that goes back to get out and be seen. I mean-press the flesh, collect the cards. You gotta do it. And, um, so those would be the three sort of mentors in various stages of my life as far as that goes. Yeah.

Dani: There are no shortcuts.

Mike: No, no. It's a contact sport and, um, you just... Especially I think more so when you're, um, on your own, entrepreneur.

Oh. You know, there's nobody-

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: I mean, you have a firm you do some work for, but, you know, what you do else why, you have to make it happen, you know? And that's, uh, it can be done.

Dani: When you were doing your entrepreneurial journey and it got rough, what kept you going?

Mike: Well, it's like I told my late aunt, um, it just, I think some faith and just knowing that there's a-there's a floor that you're never gonna really fall under.

Dani: Yeah. Yeah. Um-

Mike: It, it's tough sometimes. You wanna ... It's tough. I've been there. You know, we've all had our family, uh, experiences, good and bad, and, uh, uh, but you live and you learn and you press on. But, um, I think faith had a lot to do with it in, in my darkest times in the, in the '90s somewhat.

'Cause that's when I was on my own. Really on my own.

Dani: Yeah. Exactly.

Mike: Yeah, yeah.

Dani: Before we leave, what I, I like, in my head I imagine us, I know we're sitting on the sofa in front of microphones, but figuratively I like to think of this as sitting at the kitchen table and just-

Mike: Sure ...

Dani: having a conversation.

Mike: Yes. Well, this couch helps.

Dani: You- Right. It kind of does.

Mike: You feel that way.

Dani: Um, you love, now we're gonna get to Mike Nurre, the artist. The creative, the ro- Probably in another life was a rock and roll musician.

Mike: Oh, I, I, I'm a big, I'm a fan, yes.

Dani: Yeah. We act- that's how we actually first really connected was over The Monkees.

Mike: I know it. I know it.

Dani: Yes.

Mike: The Monkees, and then The Beach Boys when they are- Yes ... I'm from Sherman. They were up on Lake Texoma. I couldn't believe they drew 18,000 people. That's incredible. I mean- But you know there's gonna be a Hard Rock on one side of the lake, and I forgot what's, Margaritaville on the other side.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: You know, one of these days there, so.

Dani: What was, and I imagine you have so many great memories of s- 'cause you got to see some great bands.

Mike: Yeah.

Dani: Just what is one memory you'd share with us about a band you saw?

Mike: Well, rec- I mean-

Dani: No, not recent ...

Mike: It was, not recent ...

Dani: Not recent, 'cause you got to see some!

Mike: Well, I've seen The Stones at least three times.

Dani: Yeah.

Mike: I saw... But you know, they're having this debate over Memorial Auditorium downtown that they're gonna revamp. Well, I went there to see The Beach Boys, which was great, but I also saw The Rolling Stones there.

And of course I missed The Beatles. I thought they were great, but I just never got it till later. I-

Dani: Yeah ...

Mike: Stones to me were rock. They were so different themselves.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: And then you had the two of them, these nice four guys singing Lookout, and then you got these grungy guys over there. So that was, uh, that was a big time. I enjoyed that quite a bit.

Dani: But why was it The Stones for you?

Mike: Uh, like I said, they were, um, they just has, they still do, there is a, um, distinctive riff or whatever-

Dani: Mm ...

Mike: To their music. I don't know. Uh-huh. I'm not a, that much, I'm just a fan.

Dani: Mm.

Mike: But I do enjoy their, um, their music. They're a, just old style rock and roll that we grew up on in the '60s.

Dani: Yes. I, you know, someone, my husband-

Mike: Hmm ...

Dani: …was asking recently about, you know, why I just really love The Monkees. Obviously they were before-

Mike: Well-

Dani: You know, before even I was- ...

Mike: I ask you. You weren't even born, girl.

Dani: Yeah, exactly. But-

Mike: I think Micky Dolenz's two years older than I am.

Dani: And he's my favorite Monkee.

Mike: I know it.

Dani: Yes. He, um... So when they were doing the show-

Mike: Oh ...

Dani: they, uh, wanted to create like pieces of the perfect guy. So you have Davy, who's the good-looking, right? He had the looks.

Mike: Yes, he-

Dani: Micky was the funny one.

Mike: Yes.

Dani: And Peter was the sweet side, and Mike was serious. And so you have these four components, and they made, like, the perfect man. And-

Mike: Well, it was a man-made band.

Dani: They were, yes.

Mike: They created, yeah. I di- I never got into them 'cause they were man-made. To me, they were trying to be a, uh, clone of The Beatles a little bit, the American version, but they had great hits and stuff.

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Mike: But I, um-

Dani: And that's part of the st- ugh. No, I'm gonna geek out on you. That's part of their story, that they were able to break from that, right, and, and did.

Mike: They did change, didn't they, a little bit? They did, yeah.

Dani: They did, and were able to play and write their own songs and-

Mike: Final- yeah.

Dani: Yes.

Mike: Before, it was pretty much, I'm sure, formula. We didn't as-

Dani: Mm-hmm, yes ...

Mike: audience didn't realize that, right?

Dani: Uh, hundred. But they- We didn't learn all that until later.

Mike: Oh, no. Mick Jagger, everybody tried to copy him with the hairbrush and doing the air guitar and the- ... mimicking, yeah, in, back in the day. That was so, that was something.

Dani: Oh, Mike. This, I mean, this conversation, I'm s- so glad you were able to sit with us, and you took-

Mike: Well, thank you for having me ...

Dani: i'm always appreciative when people drive so far out to come to the studio. I feel like we're on the outs- the outskirts of Plano.

Mike: Well, I will have to leave. My Reese's Pieces, I left in the car.

Dani: That is actually my auto fis- fixation right now, Reese's Pieces.

Mike: Al- You're kidding.

Dani: No. I actually have some in my backpack.

Mike: Mine are M&M peanuts. I used to... As a salesman, you're something, you know, you have set your goals.

Dani: Uh-huh.

Mike: If I didn't make two or three call, cold calls, I could have two, and I kept a bowl of two M&M peanuts.

Dani: Yes!

Mike: And, uh, and we had a s- we shared a secretary at that time. I was with a firm, and she and I always did that. "How many have you eaten today? How many? How many? You know they're not good for you.”

They are good. I love them!

Dani: Yeah, it's only two. It's only two at a time.

Mike: Yeah, two at a time. Yeah. But, Mike, you get in there and you get working, you, your bowl's empty by noon.

Dani: Well, that's a good thing.

Mike: That's a good thing.

Dani: Yes.

Mike: Well, I appreciate the opportunity, and I don't know, I've just shared a few things.

Dani: You've shared so much. I, again, thank you.

Mike: You're welcome. Thank you!